Karl Hammer (00:00.494)
So it's great to finally meet you. I'm Carl, that's Amit. So you're the CEO of THE LATITIUDE.IO IO, correct? So in terms of introduction, like who are you basically?
Patrick A DePeters (00:11.714)
Yes, that's correct.
Patrick A DePeters (00:17.89)
Hmm. Yeah, I think there's a lot of things that I would probably include in my answer, but to kind of keep it punchy, I would say I'm a entrepreneur. I'm an executive coach. I'm a husband, father of, not father, but certainly a parent to four furry friends. I got two dogs and two cats. I'm super adventurous. I love the outdoors, kind of love active lifestyle and kind of keeping busy.
But yeah, at the moment, not only have I sort of started this new company, The Latitude, which is executive coaching for sort of the next generation of leaders, including entrepreneurs, but not only entrepreneurs. And alongside The Latitude or within The Latitude, I've launched a new podcast called Quiet Leaders, which is really telling the stories of the unsung heroes sort of in every corner of society who don't typically get the limelight. So.
That's a new project that I'm super excited about, but it's one of the many things that, one of the many plates that I'm spinning at the moment.
Karl Hammer (01:26.606)
So in terms of background, where are you from, what did you like growing up in school, or just what were your general interests in life?
Patrick A DePeters (01:36.386)
Yeah, so I actually grew up in Woodbury, which I don't know if you guys are local. Are you are you day students?
You are okay. So.
Karl Hammer (01:46.286)
I'm from Canada, so he's from... I'm originally from Brooklyn, but now I'm living in Washington.
Patrick A DePeters (01:53.442)
Cool. Yeah, so almost certainly you've driven through Woodbury, you know, on the way to other schools for sports and whatnot. So it's basically the next town over 10 minutes away. I grew up and spent the better part of my entire life until college in the kind of Connecticut area with Woodbury being the home base. Went to school at St. Margaret's McTernan, which is a school in Waterbury. Kind of from a young age, I was always...
really interested in like adventure and the outdoors, loving any chance I could get to sort of spend time like in the woods or, you know, skiing or mountain biking or rock climbing or go -karting. That was something I did as a kid growing up. So I always just loved exploring and sort of stepping outside of the box as a kid. And I think...
My earliest interests, I would say my first interest in a way was, was actually go -karting. So that's racing cars or little go -karts, like a couple inches off the ground. Um, and I used to do that with my dad on Sundays and, uh, have this like amazing experience, um, racing, which was like a way that, uh, or it was a, a, a sport that was, uh, very good to me in so many ways. It taught me a ton of lessons and it certainly, you know, bolstered my confidence. Um, because.
I ended up having just so many amazing races and so many great experiences with my dad. So it was really terrific. Following St. Margaret's, I went to the Gunray. So I started as a boarding student for two years. And then in my junior year, I transitioned to a day student. Essentially, as soon as I got my driver's license, I realized that I could actually drive home and sleep in a bigger bed than whatever might be in the dorm and did that for a couple of years too. So.
I graduated gunnery in 2006. When I was there, it was, I think, a little bit more traditional than it is now in terms of the kind of the prep school way, so to speak, which was great. Like it's, you know, I think it's a very unique school and one that, you know, I've defined as being a bit of a utopia in a lot of ways, but it's a place for people like me to be encouraged to kind of pursue, not only,
Patrick A DePeters (04:18.146)
engage with the things that are essentially structured part of the programming, but to also do things that are again, sort of outside the box or get kind of different types of experiences that ultimately led to a number of my other interests that I brought with me to college. So at University of Richmond, I studied business administration and leadership studies and University of Richmond being, you know, in Richmond, Virginia. And so that was my first kind of significant move, I would say, outside of the kind of New England area.
And it was amazing. Just like incredible experience. And I got sort of very my education was terrific. The social elements were terrific. My experience altogether, including studying abroad in Italy and all that was really amazing. And I was able to do there what I really wanted to do when I left the gunnery, which was not just studies, sort of a technical field and business you might consider to be.
somewhat technical. So I wanted that because I was interested in business, but I also wanted more of a liberal arts kind of approach to my education. And I was particularly interested in history and leadership and economics and literature and a bunch of other kind of subjects that I was able to integrate into my education at Richmond. So that's a little bit about kind of my education. And then beyond that, I kind of graduated and did what...
A lot of people were doing at the time, at least in my class at Richmond, which was made it to Wall Street. And I did that for about five years and decided I was ready to again, step outside of the box and put in my two weeks notice, drove out to Los Angeles to become the CFO of my first startup, CFO and partner of my first startup. And the rest in a way is history. We could certainly dig into any of the details since, but.
That first company was one of really three companies that my partners and I were owning and running. And it wasn't without its challenges, but we ultimately sold to a public company and learned an enormous amount. And since that time I've started and run and succeeded and failed in all different types of businesses in different industries. But the one I'm working on now, which I mentioned briefly at the beginning, The Latitude, and now this podcast, Quiet Leaders.
Patrick A DePeters (06:44.93)
I think is the one that sort of takes all of those experiences and brings them all into one place where I feel like it's super aligned with the kind of work I want to do and, you know, sort of paying it forward to the next generation of leaders and entrepreneurs and others that I can support in a way that I always wanted basically as an entrepreneur.
Karl Hammer (07:07.566)
So you're coming out of college looking to go, obviously, into the business world, right? And you found yourself at Wall Street. So how does one take the step out of a structured world of where there's an obvious hierarchy to the top, where you step out of that and you go your own way and you take the risk as an entrepreneur?
What is that experience like and what can you say about that?
Patrick A DePeters (07:45.058)
That's a good question. This is something that has come up on some other podcasts and some other discussions I've had because apparently I was somewhat public about what ended up happening and how I was thinking about it in terms of like a letter I wrote to my parents and how that kind of set the roadmap in a way for what I actually wanted while I was in investment banking. And so,
What I would say is I wanted to make it to Wall Street. That was a goal from Richmond, because again, lots of people were doing it. It seemed to be a good, high paying job, prestigious and what have you. But I don't know that I was ever especially passionate about the goings on of Wall Street. I just liked economics and finance and I liked the dynamic kind of elements of that world. But.
I got lucky enough to land at a really big bank, Mitsubishi Financial Group. And I say lucky because in 2010, the world was still kind of recovering from the financial crisis. So the crisis of 2008, which bled into 2009, meant that a lot of banks were not particularly healthy. And so they were kind of cutting back on their business lines, their staff, essentially everything they were doing.
Whereas the bank I was part of was in growth mode because they didn't get sucked into the mortgage mess of 2008. And so the experience was great in so many respects. Most importantly, I would say the learning. I just learned an enormous amount that went from sort of an academic understanding of finance and economics and business and strategy and other things to...
essentially deploying that knowledge and learning kind of real world applications for that knowledge on Wall Street. But I would say like two years in, so I'll first say this, most people sort of come out of undergrad and go to Wall Street work for two to three years typically as an analyst. And then they often go on to like get their MBA, they might go to a different part of the finance world like private equity or.
Patrick A DePeters (10:07.49)
hedge funds, venture capital, those are kind of the normal routes that people take. But I wasn't especially attracted to any of those. I felt like my undergrad business education was really good. So I didn't really feel like that I needed to like, go from like art history or something like that and actually learn finance because I had already learned it. And so I just felt like it wasn't an obvious next step for me. But more importantly, about two years in, I started to become a bit jaded with
what I was actually doing because I just, I would say the learning curve started to top out. So it was no, it was less than about learning and more about kind of going through the motions. And I ended up writing my parents a letter, which ended up getting shared within my network. And then it was something I had discussed on a podcast with my friend, Ben Miller, which is on my website, but I ended up saying, you know,
I now I have a broader perspective now of what I'm doing and that I know for sure I don't want to do this for 40 years. And I want to take a bet on myself. I want to not become beholden by the golden handcuffs, which is kind of not uncommon for people that have high paying jobs is that your lifestyle expands and all of a sudden you can't leave as easily because the...
your overhead and whatnot has become so significant that taking a jump off that track when you're the more senior you get becomes harder and harder and harder. So I told them basically, I wanted to do something closer to what my dad did, which was take a bet on himself. And he was an entrepreneur, built Oxford airport, about 25 minutes from the gunnery over 35 years or so. And I, I just sort of thought that, you know, most of the people that, um,
I looked up to as sort of role models in terms of their career trajectory, were doing things again, sort of outside the box. And they were, there is value in a lot of what happens on Wall Street. Don't get me wrong. But I, for me, I didn't want to necessarily have a 30 or 40 year career crunching numbers and only, you know, focusing mostly on making money and my next bonus and all this stuff. So that was two years in to my banking career. And I didn't necessarily have,
Patrick A DePeters (12:30.498)
a plan. I had a bit of a roadmap for what I wanted, but I didn't necessarily have this is the thing I'm going to do. Here's what I'm going to do it. It was more about a high level kind of pitch in a way, because in some ways I needed to convince my parents, but maybe more importantly, I needed to convince myself that by putting it in black and white on paper, I could legitimize these, you know, this feeling I had, which was a kind of
need to change or need to try something new. And so...
Not having a plan meant that I stuck with the bank for another like two and a half years, essentially. It might be a little less than that if my timeline is slightly off, but about two and a half years. And so the bank gave me an opportunity to build the M &A practice in London with a group that covers Europe, Middle East, and Africa. So I felt like that would be a great experience. That would be, again, maybe a bit more learning than I, as I said, I was sort of topping out in New York.
But at least in Europe, I would have a completely different geography to kind of learn and all different types of people from different backgrounds and different languages and cultures. And so I took that job. And it was supposed to be a year. It's called a secondment in HR speak, I guess, where a home office like New York sends you to abroad in somewhere like London. And it's about a year kind of temporary visa type thing. And.
maybe coming up on nine or 10 months into it, I got offered a full -time job and I accepted it because I still didn't know for sure what I wanted to do next. But even though I accepted it, I had been working behind, well, not working, but certainly advancing my discussions with my network basically on different things that I could do. And so two weeks after I accepted that full -time,
Patrick A DePeters (14:31.042)
full -time position for the bank, I ended up resigning and moving back to the US to Connecticut where I loaded up my mom's Suburban and drove out to LA to try my hand at being an entrepreneur. So it's kind of the short version of it, but yeah, ever since it's just been getting comfortable with taking risks, knowing that life is short. And one of my biggest fears I would say is getting to...
the end, so to speak, and feeling like I didn't take the chance on myself that I always wanted to. And there's a whole bunch of other reasons why in terms of alignment with my values and the kind of impact I want to have and not necessarily using my incredible education and everything many mentors, teachers, coaches, advisors have given me over many years to only benefit myself. I wanted to do things that could maybe, in some small way, help the world.
And so that's been, I guess, the theme of the last 10 years.
Karl Hammer (15:33.486)
So in terms of thinking outside of the box on your website, reading through your description, I noticed that obviously you have the helping and coaching to make successful leaders and entrepreneurs. But there was also, I noticed that you mentioned happiness and a sense of well -being within that. So tell us about that.
Patrick A DePeters (15:59.778)
Yeah, I think.
Patrick A DePeters (16:04.002)
I think the...
I've learned a ton of lessons as an entrepreneur. The way I describe it is you learn about 100 years of wisdom, and this is just subjective, but you learn about 100 years of wisdom by being an entrepreneur because there's so much tension in the process of it that it kind of breaks you and then it makes you and it breaks you and it makes you. And so you end up learning quite a lot on that journey in a way that may be a safer job with kind of guaranteed salary and a certain amount of structure and.
hierarchy and all that stuff that it's like a different game altogether to basically climb the ranks of a bigger company versus to start something from sometimes a post -it note, right? Like that's literally how it goes. And so what I also learned is that there's a brand of entrepreneurship that I grew up admiring. You could call it a brand, you might also call it a style or an approach. And then there's a different kind of,
style or approach that I saw so many others pursue, including myself at one point, which was more about building a billion dollar company, raising venture capital, going for broke, not necessarily focusing on profits, instead focusing on growth. And that's kind of the Silicon Valley model, which is you're just going to go for broke and move as fast as you can, move fast, break things, the whole thing. But what I realized is,
The companies that go the distance are typically not the ones that take that approach. The ones that play the long game, like the small business owners that over decades committed to something that they essentially dedicated their life towards, I felt like that model was not only more durable in terms of a career and value creation and...
Patrick A DePeters (18:04.61)
obviously making an impact in different ways, but it was healthier, I think, for the entrepreneur. And so what I realized is like, whether you're an entrepreneur or you are an executive at a company or emerging leader or a student at the gunnery, it's not just about the outcome. It's not just about some kind of validation or a big exit or any of that. I think to go the distance, you need five core components, which I coach around.
And if you'd like, I can kind of briefly explain what they are, but I believe that caring for oneself is absolutely essential because if your glass isn't full, how are you going to serve your company? How are you going to serve your community? How are you going to serve your family or anyone else? So what happens is that so many founders sacrifice themselves at the altar of their company, in part because the expectations once you raise venture capital are so high.
that you have companies like WeWork and FTX and Theranos and others that basically start cutting corners in order to deliver the pretty outlandish and maybe unrealistic growth expectations of capital. But yeah, as I said, a lot of what I coach around is utilizing the lessons I've learned, in many cases the hard way, about what the formula is for kind of
in my view, some combination of health, fulfillment and happiness and success, however one defines that.
Karl Hammer (19:41.838)
Yeah, that's great. And so I know you talk a lot about taking risks. So how do you encourage other entrepreneurs to really get out of their bubble and kind of take those risks? It's obviously very easy to kind of go the safe route, as you mentioned. So how do you push for that, for taking that risk?
Patrick A DePeters (20:01.09)
that question because everyone's different. Everyone's appetite for risk is different. If someone's already an entrepreneur, there's a good chance they're already taking some amount of risk if they define themselves as an entrepreneur because it's just embedded in the, I guess you could call it a job title. I think for people that are less comfortable with risk, maybe if they're working at a bigger company or a bigger organization or maybe even a school or whatever it is,
I think it doesn't have to be walk off a plank and that's the risk. You got to take a huge risk and bet the farm. I actually think, even in my case, when I joined that startup in LA, I had two jobs at once. There were two companies that hired me under the same shared ownership, but one of them was making money. And so there was cashflow that could pay me. And the other one was a higher risk thing that was kind of like a moonshot in some way. And so that...
I was calibrate. I think then I was even more risk averse than I am now. Almost maybe that's obvious, but I didn't want to put all my eggs in one basket and then have that basket fall out from, you know, fall off the ledge or something. So I actually did hedge my bets in that way. And I also made sure that like when I left the company, I was on good terms. And like, if I ever really needed to go back or needed any of the people that I worked with there to kind of.
help me get to the next thing, like that would be, you don't want to burn bridges. But I think what I would say is that risks, like big risks, I think are usually a lot more sort of digestible when you start with little risks. So if someone might be considering an entrepreneurial path or maybe even just like a career change, it doesn't have to be, I use entrepreneurship as a word that's in a way all encompassing for,
people that do things outside of the box. So there are plenty of people at the gunnery, for example, or Frederick Gun School that are like in the administration by way of example, where Peter Becker as an example, renamed the school. Like that's a kind of entrepreneurship that's about changing the way things are in order to kind of take a risk and maybe do something new. And I believe that's a version of entrepreneurship. So what I would say is like,
Patrick A DePeters (22:25.442)
Starting with small risks in the personal domain might be a good way to start. So as an example, if you're afraid of, I don't know, public speaking, you might consider it a risk to give a speech to maybe the school, even though you both are going to have to at some point if you haven't already. And so one of the things you could do to get more comfortable with risk is, in school it might be less easy, but certainly once you get out, it is a lot easier to find like a Toastmasters.
and then you participate in that. And so you're putting yourself out there in a way that gets you comfortable with that thing that you might be fearing, trying it, and then knowing that you didn't die and the world didn't collapse because you took a risk in some small way. And in fact, you grew from it. And so I think that would be, or trying a new sport or trying the theater or...
talking to someone that you otherwise would kind of be too shy to talk to or what have you. Those are all versions of micro risks, I guess you could call it, that build that muscle because risk taking in a way is a muscle. And if you don't sort of exercise it, I think it becomes a lot harder to even consider taking the bigger risks. For many people, the big risk is like letting go of a salary, which is a guaranteed income.
That's one thing. The second thing is, again, I don't think you have to walk off a plank for, to be an entrepreneur. I think you could start the, the, the, um, common parlance at the moment is a side hustle, which means you could have a full -time job and then maybe in the evenings or in the early mornings or at your lunchtime, you're building some small thing that you don't even need to tell that many people about. It could be an Etsy store. It could be, um, you could be selling.
trinkets at the farmer's market at the weekend or whatever. And if by doing that, you learn that you actually like the kind of agency and the kind of, you know, it's a very different experience kind of being the crater master of your own, you know, journey and your day to day and all that stuff. You lose a lot of structure by doing that. But if by taking those little steps, you know, one bit at a time, you actually learn it's the water's not so bad. I think that could lead to.
Patrick A DePeters (24:46.082)
at some point in the future saying, you know, I want to do this full time. Like I've de -risked this thing a little bit. I kind of get it. I have a product or a service that can generate enough cash for, or enough, you know, income for me to be able to survive. And I'm willing to give this a shot. So I'd say those are some of the, some of the ideas I'd have to sort of encourage people to get started.
Karl Hammer (25:10.222)
So where do you see yourself five, 10, 20 years from now considering your new ventures of the last couple of years?
Patrick A DePeters (25:22.946)
I would like to have a thriving online, well, I'd like to have a thriving coaching practice, which includes like robust online courses, a very kind of diverse and engaged online community, a really fulfilling kind of one -on -one coaching practice, a thriving podcast that is...
sort of making a difference and getting increasingly amazing guests and exposure and media and things like that. I think those kinds of things come to mind for like what's on the table now. I will say I also like what the quiet leaders think, for example, I intend to write a book on the, you know, about that podcast and the people that are going to be on essentially sharing their stories in a compendium of some kind.
And I think that it's almost already underway. It's basically starting to really happen because people are filling out these questionnaires and telling me about their journeys. And I want to make a Humans of New York kind of book about these amazing people from all levels of society. I'd also like to be more engaged, or not more engaged, but certainly more active, like giving public talks and trainings and working with some bigger companies and stuff too, because...
I don't want my work to start and stop at the line of entrepreneurship. I think that there's an awful lot of companies and organizations, whether they're nonprofits or schools or what have you, that all, without exception, need leadership. They all need leadership. And it also doesn't stop in the private sector. At some point in the future, who knows? Maybe there's some work I do with
could be government, state agencies, could be NGOs, et cetera, because leadership is a universal kind of requirement for organizations. And I think that our world needs as much...
Patrick A DePeters (27:33.666)
support and investment in leadership as possible in order to kind of build a brighter future. And I think it's something I'd love to be able to continue kind of dedicating a huge chunk of my career to doing. So those are a few things. And then I guess personally, living in LA, I've been here 10 years, no immediate plans to move, but I expect my family of at the moment.
six to grow in the years to come. So lots of fun things I hope come to pass in the future.
Karl Hammer (28:11.502)
Well, that's very good. It's great to hear what you're saying about that. And I think it's a refreshing perspective to have, sort of a different way to think about it. And it's a good thought. It's a good thing to think about. So anything to add, Mr. Tasty?
Patrick A DePeters (28:30.69)
What about you guys? Where would you guys like to be in? Sorry, I'm gonna flip the mic on you. Where would you like to be in, let's say, so you guys are what year again?
Karl Hammer (28:35.086)
Yeah.
Karl Hammer (28:40.59)
I'm a senior. I'm a senior. I may repeat you. So 2025. So yeah, he's actually older than I am.
Patrick A DePeters (28:47.906)
Got it, cool. That's awesome. Yeah, I was just explaining to a friend recently, the PG, the PG kind of thing, I guess you could call it, that I don't know how common it is outside of prep schools, because I don't know if you can do it in public schools, I'm not sure. But you can't, okay. But so yeah, maybe tell me a little bit about your experience at the Gunnery, or Frederick Gunn School, sorry. And what...
Karl Hammer (29:05.262)
I don't think so.
Yeah.
Patrick A DePeters (29:16.642)
where you'd like to see yourselves in the coming years, you know, following graduation and then maybe beyond that.
Karl Hammer (29:23.854)
Yeah, I mean, 10, 20 years is a long time, you know. Right now, I'm just trying to, you know, take things day by day. I can't lie. I haven't thought too much into that far into the future. I think I'm just starting. I think what Gunn has done really well for me because I've only been here since last year and it's really changed my mindset. Definitely. I think I'm a lot more active. I'm a lot more participant.
And there's a lot of things that I was doing before than I'm doing. And it's taught me to really start thinking about my future a lot more and trying to take the steps towards that. Even if they're just small steps, slow steps. In my case, you know, for some people, they know what they want to do right away. That's not me. And but, you know, Gunn has really taught me to just, you know, make sure that I'm having those slow steps towards, you know, trying to figure out what I want to do.
whatever it may be in the future.
Patrick A DePeters (30:24.162)
Mm -hmm. Amazing. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. It's amazing.
Karl Hammer (30:26.254)
And so personally, I have my aptitudes. I'm very much interested in law and I love to read. So I have an interest in there. But I think more so than that, on a grander scale, I want to obviously learn as much as possible. But I want to be in a place where I can take control of my life as early as possible.
at a young, preferably at a younger age than would be normal. I think I have a very, I think I learned quick and I think that I hope to be in a place, sort of a similar idea to what you have where I'm not sort of beholden to a circumstance that gives me too much security where I don't want to venture out, but I want to be, I want to take risks and do things that I...
I want to shock myself maybe, you know, I would never expect to do. And that most likely in a, in a, you know, professional, you know, you also went into the professional world and I hope to, you know, maybe be a successful lawyer, but that's not the end all be all. And who knows what the future holds, but I'm looking to, you know, take control and have a very strong sense of self and direction and, you know, have a guiding.
Patrick A DePeters (31:24.386)
Mm -hmm.
Hmm.
Karl Hammer (31:50.862)
have my guiding principles that can lead me to a great place for the future.
Patrick A DePeters (31:56.866)
Amazing. Curious, why do you want to be a lawyer?
Karl Hammer (32:00.014)
Because I don't know, I love to, I mean, it's not like the greatest reason, maybe kind of cliche, but I love to argue. But not only that, I really like, I love the intricate season, like the picking up on little, you know, semantic differences and stuff like that. And I like that. I like to argue on irrelevant, maybe somewhat irrelevant, my new points and I love to read. So I put those together and...
Patrick A DePeters (32:07.107)
Hey, that counts. I'm with you.
Patrick A DePeters (32:27.17)
Amazing.
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that's why I start essentially every coaching engagement with getting clarity on your values, which I don't remember if you guys were in the class with when I dropped by for a gun school in like February, but I sat in on one of his classes and he had the students work through defining what their values are, or maybe not super specifically, but certainly he was about to.
get into that presumably in the class, you know, the sessions to come. But I agree with that because I think if you don't have the alignment on your values and so I was asking you why you wanted to be a lawyer because it's like many people might think they want something, but really it's not what they want. It's what other people want or what have you. But if your nature is that you love reading, you love semantics, you love the intellectual challenge of something like law, like that's a really good foundation to
to build from because then you'll have more endurance in the journey if it's harder than expected or what have you. But provided that you have this kind of alignment with your values, I think it's just so important. And it takes time, by the way. It takes time to figure what those values are and they can shift. But it also takes time to maybe collect data in the process of studying to be a lawyer, actually being a lawyer, being in a law firm that show, like give you something to work with in terms of...
maybe making some adjustments in your path beyond the initial plan, right? So like you're allowed to turn left and turn right and try new things or double down on what you are doing. And I think just being aware of the fact that that is totally fine. And in fact, really smart if you want to have a life of alignment. So yeah, just wanted to share that. And I actually wanted to ask you guys one question each, if you don't mind, which is,
Karl Hammer (34:22.094)
It's good.
Patrick A DePeters (34:27.266)
Who are you guys, like role models?
Karl Hammer (34:31.982)
That's good. Well, I think my father in a certain sense is, but I never really use a term like that. More so the fact that he's very hardworking and very wise and such. But I don't know, for me it's transient. It's sort of an amalgamation of values that I can like...
put together to create this ideal person. I don't have that much exposure with, I'm not gonna say some business leader. I think in recent terms, Elon Musk has sort of amazed me, because I read his book written by, what's his name, Walter E. Sexson, right? Yeah. And that was a great read, because there's so much in it that you would never know if you didn't read the book. And it strikes me as a very...
Patrick A DePeters (35:16.29)
Well, yeah.
Patrick A DePeters (35:23.746)
Mm -hmm.
Karl Hammer (35:27.854)
a person that if he didn't act on not only his interests, but because he's a very introverted, shy person, he wouldn't be where he is today. And like you mentioned, taking risks and taking small bites rather than taking a huge risk all at once. I think that in some sense, it's an amazing story. So maybe you can put him on the list. But I think...
Patrick A DePeters (35:46.978)
Mm -hmm.
Karl Hammer (35:54.382)
I think I read and see people that do amazing things and I take everybody what they do and that's what I look at and strive towards. For me, I don't want to say I have a role model. I think if I were to pick someone, it would be my father as well. But there's no person that I want to be like, oh, there's that person I want to be just like them.
Patrick A DePeters (36:05.986)
Yeah, that's awesome.
Karl Hammer (36:21.87)
I look up to my father in a lot of ways, but I also try to learn from him. And I think he kind of recognizes that, that he is there just to teach me and I'm there to recognize, you know, maybe some mistakes that he's made along the way.
Karl Hammer (36:38.734)
There's no quote unquote role model that I have other than him. I think he is someone that I'm very lucky to look up to. I don't think everyone is blessed with that to have a caring father in their lives. And I'm very grateful for that. And he's definitely, if I were to say, you know, I've never, this is something I've never really thought about. It's one of those questions that, it's one of those questions that I don't always know.
Patrick A DePeters (37:02.306)
No, it's good. It's good. No, off the cuff is a good way to...
Karl Hammer (37:06.222)
really get asked it so you don't really think about it. But I would say that the person who's influenced my life the most and who I look at for guidance in certain scenarios would be my father.
Patrick A DePeters (37:20.898)
Amazing. It's awesome. Yeah. I think, uh, yeah, I always, I'm always interested in that because I think, you know, we're all built on the shoulders of giants and, uh, no one gets anywhere really alone. I mean, there are some people, but like that's the reality is even the people that would say that that might be true for them are probably not fully, uh, understanding that even they too were built on the shoulders of giants. Um, but yeah, I mean, for me and for a lot of my clients, I,
encourage them to think about a composite of your heroes. It doesn't have to be just one person. I have this exercise where it's like imaginary board of directors, where you can put certain people. It could be your father. It could also be historical figures. It could be existing mentors, advisors, et cetera. If you have a challenge or something you want to run by them, you can imagine, because you've read, for example, the book that Walter Isaacson wrote on Elon Musk, you can imagine what Elon Musk might say.
in terms of advice on a given topic. It might not be every topic that you want his advice for, but it could be certain topics that you for that's the reason why you have a composite because there might be someone else that's better suited for.
a different kind of topic that's not, let's say, innovation and entrepreneurship.
Karl Hammer (38:43.214)
Yeah, so thank you for your time. It's taking your time today to allow us to interview you and it was a great conversation. So we look forward to producing this podcast and uploading it. And we'll look out for your book too.
Patrick A DePeters (38:43.906)
Hehehe
Patrick A DePeters (39:01.762)
Awesome. Yeah, I'll send you guys a copy when it gets done. Hold me to it. But yeah, really appreciate you guys times a lot of fun and look forward to chatting again soon.
Karl Hammer (39:05.55)
I don't know.
Karl Hammer (39:11.438)
All right, sounds good. Thank you. Have a good one.
Patrick A DePeters (39:12.93)
Thanks guys. Okay. Take care. Bye bye. You too. Bye bye.
